Trucks, 3D rules, Self determination

[mazcort]

So the rules are set and locked in since 2009, what ever happened to a certain car that was measured at 4inches bigger then the original size. This car now complies as a 3D SPORTS SEDAN. The rules are there but nothing is enforced or followed. Sorry but i agree the utes are more than welcome to join the sport sedans and as mentioned nsw are running low on numbers. We can all bitch and winge about it but they bring the crowds to watch so i am all for it

[2JZSS]

I couldn't agree more Profi. The wild stance of a sports sedan is what separates us from the v8 super taxis.

As far as wings/bodies go why not make the rules even between transams/ sports sedans as far as bodies go? If transams are wider, have bigger wings etc why not make it so that the sports sedans can be of similar size like a 1829mm wing and bigger guards if that is the case?...

In my humble opinion and in the research i have done not many cars do adhere to the rules wholeheartedly... It seems as though up untill now the rules havent been enforced as hard as they should have so racers being racers have changed there cars to their advantage.

I'm probably one of the few that even knowing the issues i.e the rule book states one thing the cars look like another have maybe foolishly started building a car. Truth is even i have had my moments as i don't want to be disadvantaged from the outset due to the fact i'm building a sports sedan and not importing a transam. I think a few outsiders looking in have the same sentiment.

[mazcort]

hey now here is a thought for you all to think about.
BRING BACK THE AUSTRALIAN SPORT SEDAN.
What happened to the poor aussie battler running a modified floor pan sport sedan. I think every one has forgotten the grass roots of sport sedan racing. Bring this back and i am sure the numbers will increase. All the rules and regs have changed to suit the growing buget of the rich

[Phast Phil]

Wow, what a myriad of things to clear up, agree / disagree etc.

I will start with Mazcort. If one wants to run a modified floor pan car then they car. As a matter of fact I started a trophy class in the Kerrick series for exactly that; we called it the "heavy metal" class to give it a bit of bling. To date we had 2 cars in that class at the Wakefield opening round and lost one in practice and one at Morgan Park (the Magna V8) and I think one at Eastern Creek (Silvestro Mazda). I would hardly call that a major success and the guys that requested this actually deserted and did nothing to get their act together or encourage new participants. As a result there is no HM class in 2011 and there will not be one till I see at least 5 entrants in this class and some conviction from an organising group.

How can one be disadvantaged building a sports sedan compared to a Trans am style of car? Look at the records...most wins are non transam cars. Yes a good transam car in the hands of a very good driver (the Luke Youlden Mustang factor) can win however he was not able to back that up at Phillip Island just before the car was sold when Tony and Darren got their act together. Remember a true trans am car is heavier and is allowed less aero. Sure the wing is app 200mm wider but has to remain single plane. A sports sedan may have a duel plane wing and the effect of that is far greater than a 200mm wider single wing. A SS also may have a rear diffuser although some new transam (now referred to often as GT1) cars have rear diffusers. Ad for the RPM a TA car is allowed 200 extra RPM in the Kerrick series as payback for an increased weight.

Having said all that one may build a sports sedan and use a GT1 (transam) body and GT1 homologated rear wing, if one applies to the NSSC who recommends that CAMS approves. If a person does not want to ask "please Sir" for approval (all such applications have been approved) then so be it, you build otherwise by the rule book.

The utes can join the Kerrick series as long as they comply within group 3D sports sedan (the rules are always the maximums allowed....you may have less) and they pass all inspections including engine size. To the best of my understanding of the rules that I just read again a ute may be a sports sedan, as long as 5,000 examples of the particular ute were sold in Australia.

As for the wing debate....I agree that we need to include "plus approved aerodynamic devices" when referring to Trans am approved bodies and DTM cars. It makes no sense to change the aero on these cars. If it pleases anyone we run very little rear wing on a true transam car as there is very little front downforce and an excess of rear wing just turns them into understeering pigs. The bulk of the aero effeciency in a trans am car is due to the fact that they have side tunnels that accepts under bonnet air and directs down the side to be extracted at the rear wheels thus reducing air under the car.

Here is the kicker....you can build a sports sedan that way and you would if you were smart. Nowhere in the rules does it say that the firewall has to be the full width (which forces under bonnet air to go under the car causing lift). The more lift you have the more rear wing you need which in turn will slow your straight line speed. Remember trans am cars were bloody quick when they had no rear wing, just a lip spoiler.

Now finally and most importantly. The rules committe does not build a car every day and does not have eyes in the back of our heads and like most we all have day jobs and busy lives. What we ask if there is a shortfall or grey area in the rules you bring that to the attention of your state association and move a motion that would fix the situation that is then sent to the NSSC to discuss and draft a rewrite of the rule and submit to CAMS. The moratorium on rules was to stabilsie the existing rules, we still may change a rule if it is unclear and needs clarification or for a safety issue.

The forum is always good for a bit of banter and a way to vent the spleen but nothing will get done on the back of a discussion in the forum. Safe to say Ian will move a motion at the next ASSA meeting in Melbourne????? (please do).


I love the passion you all have for motorsport and I for one are open minded for change if that change is for the better. Not all change is for the better, you only have to observe politics to be convinced of that.

[Phast Phil]

Oh Mazcort, I forgot the one about the longer car. If you are referring to the 20B Datsun coupe; it was log booked and as a result has been shortened (by a friend of mine) and is now awaiting the completion of the body work.

Hopefully we will see this now legal car ( also needs to address the boot lid) back in competition in 2011, but he has been quiet and that is not his nature so I will have to follow that one up.

[Nadz44]

Well said Phil...... It sounds all to technical for me, ill just sit back and enjoy the comments ;). By the way i reckon a full blown ute built into a sports sedan would be shmick.... Always wanted to see someone dish out the dollars and put one together. Maybe a datto ute would look tuff with pumped guards big kick ass spoiler on top of a fibreglass tonneau cover and a big kick ass diffuser sittin underneathe.... And maybe chuck in a turbo commodore v6 just to spice it up a bit hey......??????

[profi]

Phil- I purely mentioned allowing wider rear wings for aesthetics only, as you said, you need to balance the car, we are limited in the front in in ways we can create downforce, so it wont be an increase in downforce, but an increase in identity for sports sedans, at the end of the day what do you lose? ties up one more debate between trans-am cars and sports sedans and leaves the class with wild looking cars.

[2002 turbo]

Personally I don't think the cars or rules need fixing. If we want our class to get stronger and have more people race with us we need to make it more appealing, a few of my thoughts:

1. In this day and age the majority of people do not have the time, knowledge or patience to go through the whole process of building a car, getting through the development hurdles and then finally racing it.
People do have the money, just look at the GT championship, plenty of cars running and they're not cheap by any stretch. The difference is they're turn key ready to race out of the box without any major re-engineering required.
We need to let people know where they can buy proven cars that are ready to race, Sport Sedan or Transam it doesn't matter.


2. If someone outside our scene does actually want to build a car they more then likely have no idea on who they should get to build it for them. Name me some chassis builders who advertises their services these days?
Its no problem if you're in the scene as you know who has built cars before but a newcomer has no
easy way of finding someone to build them a car.

3. Some recognition, yeah bit ego based but in years gone by people no doubt got a big kick out of racing in front of a large crowd, something our cars haven't done for a very long time. Not entirely our fault (the promoters have a lot to answer for because they do a very crap job!) but if the class is not on show to people how are they going to know about us let alone get involved. Granted the TV coverage is pretty good but racing in front of a big crowd would give people a buzz and see a big field of our cars live would do great thing to get people enthusiastic about the class.

4. We don't have a big enough profile. Yes the older guys know about the golden days but the new motorsport competitors, most of them don't know that we exist!


I don't know if anyone takes this on board, I have posted similar stuff before. I know ASSA NSW is putting in a effort to get more publicity with car displays and some advertising. Hopefully it will have a spin on effect to the other states in generating more interest.
I am realistic in the sense I know we won't ever be the top level category in the country nor would I want that as it would make our class out of reach of the average competitor. I would just like to see more cars running to ensure this great class continues on for many race seasons to come.

[loser]

Wow, reading all this is giving me a headache....
While I agree it's disappointing the utes get a 3D logbook when they don't comply, if that made for a good race meeting and helped keep the class alive, well it can only be good. Perhaps if these guys enjoy the racing then 2002 and the other NSW SS members can encourage them over time to modify the utes to comply within the body rules etc. for 3D. Maybe encourage them by saying..You're having fun now, what if you modify it to look like an aussie ute then you can put a decent 700hp engine in it and have shiploads of fun?
As for the Transam rules etc... Yes, maybe there are some grey areas, maybe? But to be honest it's never worried me so I haven't bothered to look into it as i'm usually too busy working on my car, which I suggest anyone who owns a SS should be.
And besides, probably the 3 most complying Sports Sedans in the country, Gourlay's Audi, Randle's SAAB and Ricca's Alfa are wiping the floor with the rest of us. Christ, give me a 1,000hp, 9 litre Transam with a 3metre wide wing and I still wouldn't have the talent to go as fast as any of those guys.

One other thing, probably the best chance SS have had in a while to get some exposure is this weekend, and it's not one of our race meetings. We have a display at the AGP, an excellent spot with heaps of pedestrian traffic. Why yesterday (Thursday the 1st day of the GP) it was pooring rain and we still drew a big crowd. We (the Vic ASSA) were offered to take as many cars as we could get there... How many could we get????? 5.... That's right, 5 compettitors got off their arses and took their cars because it's just too hard for everyone else...

So my answer to everyone is this, turn off your computers, stop worrying about bullshit, get out in the shed and get whatever you have in there on the track and racing before there are no tracks left and we're all stuck watching "Sports Sedans of the futrure" running around street circuits..

[boschvette]

Hi new member but long time looker,
I put this out there, let the trucks run and give them a weight penalty they look good and are in the spirit of the category,that may encourage a host of Nascars from the old thunderdome days out of mothballs and add to the numbers cause as i see it they could only add to the sound and colour of the best form of racing in town.I think that alot of people lose the" spirit of the category" theme sometimes and forget that its not only competitor enjoyment but spectator enjoyment as well and that will see it grow.