Trucks, 3D rules, Self determination

[FalconEL]

A little off topic but the funny thing to this argument here is we are wondering whether the Tranzam car meets the requirements for it to be given a 3D logbook, but the Oz utes didnt have a problem getting one. I would have thought the Tranzam car was closer to a Sports Sedan than a ute. Somethings wrong somewhere.

It is worth noting that a Log Book is not an Eligibility Document. It is a Competition Record Document only. So CAMS in reality can issue as many 3D Log Books as they like, it doesn't necessarily mean that the vehicle complies with the rules for the category it's owner chooses to run it in...................

[Phast Phil]

Ricey,
I stated a TA or a SS with a TA body MAY be used and this is covered in the tech regs. The fact is they MAY be used, all one has to do is apply and get approval.

Ian, you seem to want to tie yourself up in contradictions, it is not that hard mate. If you think a rule should be addressed then write a draft amendment. Put that up on the forum and no doubt more than one state will back it if it makes good sense and then deliver to the NSSC.

Both Chris D and myself will be writing some amendments to put forward at the QRDA meetings with a view to taking them to NSSC later this year.

The other issue you raise is CAMS rollover protection rules and limitations. Looking at that cage (never seen one like that previously) CAMS may have an issue as they did with the larry bar. Does not mean you cannot cut it out. Simple fabrication would rectify, just maybe not quite as rigid.

[profi]

That's a common chassis from the states, same one mike skeen has been running successfully, proven to be fast.

[Ricey88]

Chris
What you wrote on page one of this thread as a possible inclusion to the regs

That a Sports Sedan may also consist of:

(b) Trans-am automobiles complying with A.S.S.C. regulations for North American Trans-am competition (Class TA)
(c) TraNZam automobiles complying with TRG of New Zealand regulations (ClassTNZ).

Would go a long way to fixing the “contradictions that are tying me up”

With the exception of sports sedan TA bodied cars that would still be restricted to 3DSS dimensions, Body & Wing Widths etc..

Adding something like
(d) Cars eligible under (b) and (c) may be modified as per the 3DSS rules with the exception of the body, front Splitter and rear wing.

“Available DTM/TransAm-style bodywork may be used when recommended by the NSSC and CAMS for approval”


Better if YOU put that, or something like it forward, It has a better chance of being accepted.
If you are not going to, I am more than happy to write it up and submit it to a Vic meeting with a few other less
Important items

Maybe here
2. ELIGIBILITY
To be eligible for this group cars must be series production closed cars, manufactured primarily from steel and must be or have been:
(1) on sale in Australia through a recognised manufacturer franchised dealer network, or
(2) of a type of which a minimum of 5,000 examples have been manufactured worldwide, or
(3) automobiles which otherwise do not comply with (1) and (2) above but which have been recommended by NSSC and approved by CAMS. Cars which are presently so approved:
(a)Toyota MR2 only when fitted with reciprocating engine (of up to two litres) or twin-rotor rotary engine.
Such vehicles, where issued with a log book prior to 1 August 2002, may continue to compete in mid-engined format with the engine to the rear of the midpoint of the wheelbase.
(b) Trans-am automobiles complying with A.S.S.C. regulations for North American Trans-am competition (Class TA)
(c) TraNZam automobiles complying with TRG of New Zealand regulations (ClassTNZ).
(d) Cars eligible under (b) and (c) may be modified as per the 3DSS rules with the exception of the body, front Splitter and rear wing.
Note 1: Any new mid-engined cars will only be eligible where the complete engine is positioned forward of the midpoint of the wheelbase.
Note 2: Manufacturer-supplied optional body kits, where each component is identified by a manufacturer’s
part number, will be considered for approval by NSSC and CAMS, each being evaluated on its merits.
Note 3: In all cases the base model of each eligible vehicle will be the reference for wheelbase, track width, maximum width and length of coachwork.

[pearcesnr]

Hey All, we are getting to a point where much is more and little is not enough.
1. Lets all run by the 3D rules at a national level, as there has been great progress made there to bring the quality and numbers to each round, with the backing of Kerrick,
2. All states suffer for numbers at some times each year, if other catergories feel the need to have a display, as I thought was happening at Easter Creek, let your state associations deal with this.
We as a group of people have a passion for, building/ buying and racing WHAT we like, we should not take any other concepts into the running of what I feel has been a GREAT effort from all reps of all states, to reignight SPORTS SEDANS of Australia, to see many state cars running at the National meetings is a credit to all.
pearcesnr

[Oz Truck Greg]

Hi everybody,


My name is Greg McIntyre, I am one of the co-directors of Oz Truck Stock Car Racing, the company that imports and sells the Oz Truck NASCAR style pick-up trucks that have been mentioned in this forum, I thought I should put something together just to clear up any misconceptions about the trucks and the category, please let me begin with how I became involved in this business.

Myself and partner Graham Struber have worked as race mechanics for several years at National and State levels, from Formula Ford, Sports Sedans and V8 Supercars, in the main series and Development Series. Graham and I found that the cost of racing had become a bit out of control for both young drivers looking to progress to V8 Supercars and other drivers out there to have fun at that level/pace. Drivers that could find the money to run for the year simply couldn’t afford to have a real go as the potential crash damage would blow their budget.

We began doing some research and liked what we saw in the NASCAR Trucks. We began talking with an oval truck manufacturer and series promoter in California and by coincidence they were developing a prototype Road Race Truck. I will point out now that these trucks are not in any way related to Craftsman or Camping World Trucks as suggested in another thread on this forum, they are brand new circuit racing specific in design. They have a totally different suspension design, body shape, are much lighter and have less horsepower. It was at this stage we had a speedway Super Sedan driver that was interested in going circuit racing so we organized a test weekend in the U.S.A where we tested 3 trucks with different engine/gearbox combinations, we settled on the 500 h.p 385c.i Chev and T-101 Dog Box combination. The engine is a sealed “Spec’ engine built by VanGordon Racing Engines for 3 different categories in the U.S, in one of these categories they run the engine to 7200rpm, we have limited it here to 6400rpm for longevity, it is a hydraulic roller engine with a wet sump, as they build quite a few of these engines per year they are very well priced and this is why we went for this “built” engine as opposed to a “crate” engine, we retail this engine including ignition and E85 Carb for $14,950 plus g.s.t. As we are not working this engine hard we expect excellent engine life. The only change to the U.S engine is the switch to Sucrogen E85 as the fuel they run retailed for around $4.50 per litre from memory, even though consumption is around 30% higher the E85 overall is much cheaper per lap at $2.50 per litre. We also receive excellent service from Brett Thompson at Fuel Control in supplying the fuel.

It has also been suggested on another thread on this forum that they “looked and sounded like more than 500hp”, guys 500 hp is what they make, at 6400 rpm and around 495 ft/lbs of torque, if they made more we would be shouting it from the rooftops to try to sell these things.

The trucks are based around a straight rail chassis with a 3 link rear end, very similar to a Trans-Am chassis from what I have seen, the fiberglass body shows no particular manufacturer identification allowing people to badge them to represent whatever make they desire. Toyota, Ford, Mazda, Holden, Chev, Great Wall or whatever. The chassis is designed around off the shelf components making for ridiculously cheap repair costs, please have a look at the parts pricing section of the website at www.oztruck.com to calculate repair or running costs. Something the Americans are very good at is making racing cheap and cars easy to maintain, and design their cars to suit, this is why the trucks run the radiator in the tray, this is also why they are built as a single seater allowing for an off the shelf exhaust, easy access to driveline components and no need for a hoist to access, just jackstands and a jack.

In April 2010 we took delivery of the first 2 trucks, 1 was pre-sold and the other was as a demonstration vehicle and used as such at 4 race meetings that year. As you can see from the outset we were well aware that the trucks did not comply with current sports sedan rules particularly the engine capacity and rear mounted radiator.

Our intention has always been to run the trucks at Queensland Raceway and Lakeside Raceway under the A.A.S.A. within the Sedans category initially, with the aim of running as a standalone category once sufficient entries enabled us to do so. There was no ”wing and a prayer venture”, we had written permission to race from Qld Raceways in August 2009, long before we pursued anything seriously. Mid last year we had enquiries from and eventually sold 3 trucks to Sydney based racers, this was a deciding factor in running with the I-Race series allowing us to add Eastern Ck in to our 2011 championship calendar, to support these 3 customers, this also gave the added the bonus of running at Morgan Park. We have since sold another 2 trucks into S.E Qld.

Last year as part of our research into where else customers could run their trucks we thought the National Sports Sedan Series may be a possibility if the administrators agreed and we could get the truck issued with a CAMS logbook, we think the trucks would be a good fit as they are a well presented vehicle, they are not quick enough for outright contention but not too slow to be a hindrance and would boost grid numbers contributing to the series financially etc. As you can see from the e-mail sent through the Sports Sedan website below my enquiry was one of feeling out if this was feasible and certainly not making assumption that we would be accepted.

Enquiry sent via SportsSedans.com.au Web Site-

“Phil Crompton,

I was talking with Stuart Patterson at Lakeside 2 weeks ago, I met Stuart and yourself a few years ago when I worked for Steve Voight on his Nissan at Mallala, Stuart suggested I contact yourself. Myself and business partner Graham Struber have brought in some brand new circuit racing specific versions of NASCAR pick-up trucks, we intend to initially run under the A.A.S.A at Q.R and Lakeside. We would like however to investigate how the trucks could fit within a C.A.M.S catagory, the chassis and driveline components are closest to a Trans-AM style Sports Sedan than anything else, if you could contact myself with any suggestions on which logbook officers I should talk with or any suggestions you may have that would be appreciated. We have sold 1 truck but the other truck that is here as stock, available for sale is located just up the road at Morayfield if you would be interested in having a look. Thanks mate and look forward to talking with you. Greg McIntyre Ph. 0408 742 111 www.oztruck.com”[/b]

Reply Sent 01/06/2010-

[b]“Greg,
You would have to talk to CAMS as they are not suitable for sports sedan competition and that is all I represent.
Regards
Phil Crompton”

I left it at that, Phil made it clear that he and I assume the Association he represents were not interested in pursuing this any further. I am a little bewildered by the following comment on the forum from Phil,

“Personally I thought it was foolish for someone to purchase these trucks and expect them to be raced or sold here. I think my opinion has proven correct unless they bought them very cheaply in the USA (less than parts value).”


As I made it very clear in the enquiry above that “we intend to initially run under the A.A.S.A at Q.R and Lakeside” and that my enquiry was just to investigate other options, there has been no foolishness, we have always made it clear to potential customers that the trucks are not eligible to compete at CAMS sanctioned events and were only eligible for use at A.A.S.A sanctioned events at Q.R and Lakeside, recently adding Eastern Ck and Morgan Park and then only at their I-Race rounds.

Since our 3 Sydney customers have taken delivery of their trucks they have successfully had the trucks issued with CAMS Logbooks and participated in a NSW Sports Sedan race meeting, as you could imagine they are keen to run their new vehicles as much as possible and especially at venues close to home. This is something they have done through their own initiative in consultation with the NSW Sports Sedan Association and something which we support. Oz Truck Stock Car Racing as a business and category currently has a home within the I-Race series, this however does get the trucks in front of more people and can only be a positive for the owners and the future of Oz Truck as a whole, if somehow the trucks were eligible to run in the National Sports Sedan Series through the administrators re-visiting their rule book Oz Truck may look at this as an option for the future.

Nominations are $600 plus g.s.t for the single day NSW meetings and $900 plus g.s.t for the multi-day QLD meetings, this is a premium over the $400 I-Race entry but Oz Truck nomination is also there to promote the future of Oz Truck, in addition to race nomination this cost also covers,

- Promotion of series in print media (prior to each meeting)
- Tech Inspections carried out by third party at all meetings (engineer Bruce Price)
- Category Engine Builder at all QLD Meetings for tech inspections and engine re-sealing (M.R Performance) originally this was for all race meetings but we decided to drop this from the 1 day meetings to reduce the nomination fee.
- Management of race series and point score
- Technical Support at race meetings
- Full spares back-up at Queensland meetings
- Critical spares support at N.S.W meetings
- Race reports and driver/team profile area with links on Oz Truck web site.

To make life easier for our customers nominations for each entry are paid direct to Oz Truck rather than paying us for the above and paying I-Race separately for the entry. We have recently rehashed our website for this year and are waiting on driver profiles from our customers to complete this section of the website.

When Graham and I made the decision to start bringing the trucks in, when we were in discussions with our supplier and had some say in the final specifications of the truck the main factors were that the racer had to be able to run one of these things with themselves and 1 other person at the track and transport the vehicle and equipment with only a Landcruiser size ute and car trailer. With this in mind we specced the trucks as single seaters (no floorpan means access to most components from the passenger side once tinwork is easily removed), remote adjusters on rear suspension to make in session changes without jacking the truck up, the trucks in gelcoat so that there is no need to carry spare panels to the track, just a decal kit to fit to the white body panels available from Oz Truck. All critical suspension components are also available for purchase at the track should they require replacement after being damaged. Wireless EFTPOS is at the track at all meetings for parts purchase. Tyres, both Wets and Slicks are sold by us at $395 and $320 respectively.

The thing to remember with the trucks is that some people want to go racing without access to or without the ability to fabricate components, repair damaged components and without the need to engineer a car from scratch, the real benefit of the trucks to some people is that any and every component is listed on our website and can be ordered and bolted on, they are well balanced and relatively quick out of the box and will get someone on the track very quickly. Yes they are dearer to purchase than a used Sports Sedan, they are not a used Sports Sedan, they are a brand new vehicle that is turnkey in whatever colour you decide, the driver fitted to the correct size seat, pre-delivery checks completed in Australia, suspension set up on scales to suit the drivers weight and handed over at the track during a shakedown session to familiarize the new owner with the vehicle and perform secondary checks. They are cheap to run and repair, easy to maintain and a heap of fun to drive, more importantly, an Oz Truck is exactly the same as another Oz Truck, same horsepower, same weight, same aero, same brakes, same shocks etc. I’m sure you get the picture. The trucks have run as quick as 1 min 15.8 sec at Q.R, most drivers will run around 1 min 18 sec as per the 1st round this year. This puts them around 4 sec per lap behind the equivalent driver in a V8 Supercar and between 6-9 sec per lap quicker than a V8 ute.

Thanks for taking the time to read through and find out the real story behind how the Oz Trucks began, what they are and what our intentions are, I am a big fan of Sports Sedans, always have been and look forward to the day I have time to build one myself, I have enjoyed the couple of meetings I have spannered at State and National Level, have a good relationship with the drivers I have worked with in Sports Sedans and felt that we could somehow assist each other in boosting grid numbers for the Sports Sedans and in turn assist us in developing a new category that is a bit different to anything else around at the moment. I wish Phil and the all the competitors in the Kerrick series all the best during these tough economic times, it is a great series and the cars are awesome.

Thanks for those with positive comments, anyone wishing to have a closer look at a truck please contact myself at greg@oztruck.com or Ph. 0408 742 111, our demo truck is at our Morayfield Qld workshop(10 mins North of Lakeside) available for inspection at anytime. Test drives are available by prior arrangement for those serious about entering the category. We have 2 trucks in Sydney also running some Oz Truck signage and therefore can be made available for inspection by prior arrangement. In total there are 6 trucks currently in Australia, 2 more are nearing completion and will be shipped within the next 2-3 weeks. The #85 truck is available for lease at the next Round plus a Q.R test, this truck was leased by Steve Voight at the Q.R Round last month where it was the quickest truck on the track, unfortunately Voighty has a prior engagement and missed race 2 leaving Kevin Heffernan to drive the wheels off #85, Kevin was smiling when he left.

Our next NSW Meeting is at Eastern Ck Fri 29th April, the next QLD meeting is at Lakeside 17,18,19th June.

Cheers

Greg McIntyre

[Htc Motorsport]

Very nice marketing spiel....the facts are they are not Sports Sedans and should never be classed as such. In my opinion if you are that much into Sports Sedans as you say you are, you would have built one, me personally thinks its another business oportunity ala Aussie Race Cars.

I personally dont care about your engine power or how easy it is to fix, they are simply not a Sports Sedan and that should be the end of the saga. Go ask another catagory if you can run with them, see what the answer is!!!!!

People go on about how bad the numbers are in the class, thats true, but thats always been the case, like any other catagory it has its ups and downs, but theres one thing, they are still there after all this time...new catagories have come and gone and the old Sports Sedan still lives on..

[Toymax]

Very nice marketing spiel....the facts are they are not Sports Sedans and should never be classed as such. In my opinion if you are that much into Sports Sedans as you say you are, you would have built one, me personally thinks its another business oportunity ala Aussie Race Cars.

Correct, they are not "sedans". That argument came up earlier in this thread. I'm nearly finished building a Toyota Soarer Sports Sedan. It is a coupe, not a sedan. Perhaps I should be banned too.

While you are at it, a Monaro is a coupe. A Mustang Trans Am is a coupe. A Calibra is also a coupe. A 300ZX is a sports car, as are all of those RX7's. Get rid of all of them, so that there are only "sedans" on the track.

That should make really interesting racing amongst the half dozen or so "real sports sedans" left.

[Toymax]

Actually, while we're at it, let's delete the following line from the 3D regs in the CAMS manual:

"The use of exotic and/or interesting vehicles as the Defined Car is encouraged."

[Htc Motorsport]

Yeah, yeah , yeah and thats another story.....i can go back to those days as well, when this argument started over 2 doors... Toranas, Escorts, Geminis etc...the fact is its a ute...im telling you now someone will come along and stick a half descent engine in one of these things and then look out, there will be special ute canopies made for aero with wings up at roof height, 100mm guard extensions....CMON, SPORTS SEDAN me think not.. theres a thing called the spirit of the sport