Sports Sedan racing weights

[Phast Phil]

Just a thought. How about each of you throw out your pre 2010 CAMS group 3D sports sedan tech regs and replace with the ones that are on our web site in the competitors section.
Too many times I see questions that are no longer relevant.

Toymax, it has been some years since multivalve engines were given an extra multiplier.

The pushrod dinosaur crowd would love for someone to come up with an alternative that was just as reliable, produced the numbers and had a parts back up. To date no one has done that successfully, not to say it cannot be done but we first have to find a willing pioneer with deep pockets.

A for the sliding scale capacity weight solution, keep it simple or it does not get past CAMS. Maybe someone can study the drag racing cubic capacity and weight rules for whatever class that may be appropriate as they would have done their homework based on equalising over the quater mile.

[profi]

Would someone be able to clear up the 'grandfathered' cars rules (It's all a bit confusing). Ie cars which were built in another era that are not legal these days such as monocoque cars, which rules do they run by?

Thanks

[Ricey88]

Would someone be able to clear up the 'grandfathered' cars rules (It's all a bit confusing). Ie cars which were built in another era that are not legal these days such as monocoque cars, which rules do they run by?

Thanks

Hey Profi
Could you start a thread for this as it may confuse the Weights Topic

[MrBoost]

[quote]Just a thought. How about each of you throw out your pre 2010 CAMS group 3D sports sedan tech regs and replace with the ones that are on our web site in the competitors section.
Too many times I see questions that are no longer relevant.

Toymax, it has been some years since multivalve engines were given an extra multiplier.

quote]

part of the point of this thread for some of us is 'how did we used to be, and why and when did some things change'
we arent all on a committee and sometimes life takes us away from our passions and we miss things.
I agree cams will probably shoot down the sliding scale, i seem to rememebr you having a hard enough trouble with the reasonably simplistic one you put together.

I am a little confused though as im sure i rememebr sitting at a meeting years ago when some weights were based off keenies car at the time as being 975kg ??? is that right or do i remember incorrectly? as the way i read the 2010 manual bobby can be 900??

I dont think toymax was saying i hate dinosaur engines i think he was asking why a newer style v8 has to be penalised to keep the current ones used in contention. Not that i think theres a current v8 out there that you would bother with to beat the current chevs unless you wanted to spend shitloads.
I dont know for sure toymax but id say it goes down the path of stopping someone with a ton of cash spending that ton of cash to blow everyone away? which is faitr enough! The same argument comes back at our engine. We run the 3.5L v6 twin turbo i i am sure we have the most power out there, we just dont have the reliability or driveability. but someone with more money than us could achieve that relatively easy so we ge tthe 75kg and that puts us up to 1200kg which is fair.
If someone wants these rules to change your going to have to take it on your own back to an extent, as no one has really complained on a big scale and im sure phil or anyone will tell you its no 5 minute job to make these changes. You need to find out what cams wants presented to them and write it all up and present it (on here if neccessary) for all to see so that people and committee can give approval and submit ti to cams if they think it has a chance of passing. Dont expec tthem to take days out of there work lives to change something that hasnt been a big bother to them.

[Toymax]

I dont think toymax was saying i hate dinosaur engines i think he was asking why a newer style v8 has to be penalised to keep the current ones used in contention.

I dont know for sure toymax but id say it goes down the path of stopping someone with a ton of cash spending that ton of cash to blow everyone away? which is faitr enough!

If someone wants these rules to change your going to have to take it on your own back to an extent, as no one has really complained on a big scale and im sure phil or anyone will tell you its no 5 minute job to make these changes. You need to find out what cams wants presented to them and write it all up and present it (on here if neccessary) for all to see so that people and committee can give approval and submit ti to cams if they think it has a chance of passing. Dont expec tthem to take days out of there work lives to change something that hasnt been a big bother to them.

You should know by now Boost that I don't mind writing something up if necessary...

Phil, don't be offended, it was a simple question and I said that the dinosaur answer was all that I'd been given so far. It seems if you add a weight penalty (or any penalty for that matter), then there is not incentive for anyone to come up with an alternative is there? I'm not saying get rid of Chevs (or the other big engines) I'm just asking why is there that weight penalty? Maybe Boost is onto the real reason - is it about keeping costs down? Seems odd with some of the money spent on Chevs out there.

[Toyzda]

MrBoost,

Multivalve rule aplies to over 2500cc swept volume. 2L turbo is 3400cc swept. So 900kg for 2V head and 975kg for 3V or greater. Last time is saw the RX7 in question it had a SR20 which is a 4V, so it should be 975kg min weight including the driver.

As far as the multivalve rule goes - why is it even in the rule book? No-one is going to build a multivalve NA engine to beat the NASCAR engines anyway... the multivalve turbo cars won't be able to outrace the torquey 6L V8's on most tracks (as seen when McFadden drove the 2L Turbo RX7 against the Riccadello Alfa a few years ago) so the 6L guys should welcome the competition if more turbo cars are up racing with them.

With the original post and the weights, how is it going to work? will that mean the classes are now rolled into one "even" category? I believe the weights should stay and give all the competitors a clear definition on capacity and weight.

PS: I know i been away for a long time, but have started to do work on the car again and decided to have a read on whats going on. I it good to read the successful progression of SS racing around the country - you guys are doing a great job!

M

[Toyzda]

And while we are talking about rule changes to class why don't we change the rotary multiplyer to 1.74 so the 12A can be u2L and the 13B will stay in 2000-2500 and the 20B stays in u3500?

Also why is the maximum capacity of a rotary mentioned in the rule book??? Does that mean we can use the super quad rotors in NA form that are built in Oz??? I wonder if they will build a 5 rotor to max out the capacity limits....

That is a serious question too. Why can we not use the "manufactured" tripple and quad rotors available (well I couldn't afford one, but lots can)? You can use aftermarket blocks and custom machined heads as long as they retaim cam amd crank locations etc... so why not the rotors that are the same as the Mazda units?

Imagine the "silver bullet" centerline car with a "26B" quadrotor in it? It is nearly the same speed as the front running 6L guys now, maybe it will get closer to them even at 1050kg?

[MrBoost]

Toyzda

'theoretically' 2L turbo is 2000cc 'swept' as per profi's post. Legally wouldnt you get away with it because of the wording? as in get away with 900kg's?


as for the quad rotors theres the same problem of 2500 production example built.....

[Ricey88]

Thanks for your reply Phil
I totally agree with you about "Keep it simple"
My 9 year old nephew using his mothers phone was easily
able to use my proposed calculation .
I can't see the CAM's Tech Rep having difficulty using it !

[Ricey88]

MrBoost
Still waiting on your thoughts on on a turbo 2088cc having a 600cc advantage over
a 1480cc turbo (Same weight)

The same 2088cc turbo has a 75Kg weight advantage over 2090cc turbo!

Boost i'm not surgesting putting weight on the 2088cc i am only proposing
to take the stupid disadvantage off the others.
and similar disadvantages to other turbo cars all the way up the scale.